flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

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flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

marius adrian popa
Administrator
create the sequence
CREATE SEQUENCE test
then when you export the DDL it is exported as Generator

CREATE GENERATOR test

I think the ddl should export sequence

CREATE SEQUENCE is fully equivalent to CREATE GENERATOR and is the
recommended syntax from Firebird 2.0 onward

http://www.firebirdsql.org/refdocs/langrefupd25-ddl-sequence.html

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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

Milan Babuskov-4
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 8:36 PM, marius adrian popa <[hidden email]> wrote:
> create the sequence
> CREATE SEQUENCE test
> then when you export the DDL it is exported as Generator

AFAIK there is not difference is stored metadata. So we cannot know
which statement was used to create it. A user that used CREATE
GENERATOR statement to create it could have the same argument as you.

> CREATE SEQUENCE is fully equivalent to CREATE GENERATOR and is the
> recommended syntax from Firebird 2.0 onward

So you want us to drop support for Firebird 1.5? Some recent polls
show that there are a lot of users still using it.

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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

marius adrian popa
Administrator
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 2:29 AM, Milan Babuskov
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 8:36 PM, marius adrian popa <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> create the sequence
>> CREATE SEQUENCE test
>> then when you export the DDL it is exported as Generator
>
> AFAIK there is not difference is stored metadata. So we cannot know
> which statement was used to create it. A user that used CREATE
> GENERATOR statement to create it could have the same argument as you.
>
>> CREATE SEQUENCE is fully equivalent to CREATE GENERATOR and is the
>> recommended syntax from Firebird 2.0 onward
>
> So you want us to drop support for Firebird 1.5? Some recent polls
> show that there are a lot of users still using it.
90% of users are on Firebird > 2.0
http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=88580994&gid=1467097&commentID=65411545&trk=view_disc&ut=0DOO6Uz4hozl41
And my guess is we want to go the standard way and if the user is
still stuck on Firebird 1.5 it can be exported as generator or use
previous stable flamerobin 0.9.3.xxxx

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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

Milan Babuskov-4
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:51 AM, marius adrian popa <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 90% of users are on Firebird > 2.0

10% of all FlameRobin users is still a huge group of people. And we
should let them down for what? Syntactic sugar?

I'm sorry, I just can't buy that argument. Backward compatibility is
very important. I don't use FB 1.x anymore, but still someone might
need to support it in production and having a tool that still produces
valid DDL that would work on all versions is a great feature. It's not
like we're sacrificing support for newer versions.

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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

Dalton Calford-2
I still use FB 1.5 - but the issue can be simply resolved by checking
the dialect of the database - if it is dialect 1, use generators, if
dialect 3 or better, use sequence.

This keeps backwards compatibility and moves the project forward.

On 22 October 2012 09:46, Milan Babuskov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:51 AM, marius adrian popa <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 90% of users are on Firebird > 2.0
>
> 10% of all FlameRobin users is still a huge group of people. And we
> should let them down for what? Syntactic sugar?
>
> I'm sorry, I just can't buy that argument. Backward compatibility is
> very important. I don't use FB 1.x anymore, but still someone might
> need to support it in production and having a tool that still produces
> valid DDL that would work on all versions is a great feature. It's not
> like we're sacrificing support for newer versions.
>
> --
> Milan Babuskov
> http://www.guacosoft.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

Milan Babuskov-4
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Dalton Calford
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I still use FB 1.5 - but the issue can be simply resolved by checking
> the dialect of the database - if it is dialect 1, use generators, if
> dialect 3 or better, use sequence.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I fail to see what has that got to do
with generators?

If you have FB1.5 database using dialect 3, you won't be able to run
"create sequence" statement. It will fail.

Regards,

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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

Dalton Calford-2
I don't know about others, but the only reason I am still using fb1.5
is that some of the code/psql does not have the same behaviour under
dialect 1 and 3.   Thus we kept with dialect 1/firebird 1.5, with
dialect 3 for firebird 2 onwards.

Firebird 1 dialect 3 ports fine onto Firebird 2 dialect 3 as far as I
can tell with little problem.

The only reason not to move onto a supported platform vs an
unsupported platform is the cost to move the code, a dialect change is
about the only reason to stay with the fb 1 series unless it is not
being actively developed, in which case, a tool such as flamerobin has
little value to them.

Likewise, it does not make sense to develop a FB 2.0 database using
dialect 1, so, using the database dialect as an extraction rule seems
reasonable.

The dialect is something simple to check - if you can use database
engine version in it's place, even better.   Extract the ddl in the
highest level that the engine supports.

The user can manually change the ddl extract if he needs to backport
it to an earlier version.



On 22 October 2012 15:31, Milan Babuskov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Dalton Calford
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I still use FB 1.5 - but the issue can be simply resolved by checking
>> the dialect of the database - if it is dialect 1, use generators, if
>> dialect 3 or better, use sequence.
>
> Maybe I'm missing something, but I fail to see what has that got to do
> with generators?
>
> If you have FB1.5 database using dialect 3, you won't be able to run
> "create sequence" statement. It will fail.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Milan Babuskov
> http://www.guacosoft.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

Milan Babuskov-4
I know of some shops that maintain 500+ Firebird installations as I
sometimes do consulting services for them. They have 300+ Firebird 1.5
installs and rest is 2.1 mostly. Going through manual upgrade is not
an option for old systems, it would simple take them too much time.
Still, being able to rollout the new features automatically from the
single source (FlameRobin's auto-saved changes to database structure)
is something I cannot envision you could do reliably with
search&replace or whatever. You trust the tool to do the right stuff.

Replacing "generator" with "sequence" is the same as saying "let's not
support 1.5 anymore". I still see no benefit from using "sequence"?

This is the exact line of thinking that made me stop using some other
programs that decided the backward compatibility is not important, and
I hate those developers for that.

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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

marius adrian popa
Administrator
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 1:33 AM, Milan Babuskov
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I know of some shops that maintain 500+ Firebird installations as I
> sometimes do consulting services for them. They have 300+ Firebird 1.5
> installs and rest is 2.1 mostly. Going through manual upgrade is not
> an option for old systems, it would simple take them too much time.
> Still, being able to rollout the new features automatically from the
> single source (FlameRobin's auto-saved changes to database structure)
> is something I cannot envision you could do reliably with
> search&replace or whatever. You trust the tool to do the right stuff.
>
> Replacing "generator" with "sequence" is the same as saying "let's not
> support 1.5 anymore". I still see no benefit from using "sequence"?
>
> This is the exact line of thinking that made me stop using some other
> programs that decided the backward compatibility is not important, and
> I hate those developers for that.
Ok i understand i hate when api changes for no reason too
Maybe we can find a way in the conf something like
export generators as seqences = true or generators old behaviour =
true (by default if is not set)
and ifdef the export part

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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

Michael Hieke
Hi all,

let me preface this by saying that I agree with Milan in general, let's
not touch stuff that qualifies as merely cosmetic as long as there are
still bugs to squash and vital features to implement, killing support
for older FB versions in the process.

Am 23.10.2012 07:25, schrieb marius adrian popa:

> Maybe we can find a way in the conf something like
> export generators as seqences = true or generators old behaviour =
> true (by default if is not set)
> and ifdef the export part

That's too specific IMHO.  We can not reasonably add a configuration
option for each syntactic change in the DDL.

What we could have is a per-database syntax level, something that would
control all those differences, like ALTER or RECREATE vs. dropping and
recreating a database object, GENERATOR vs. SEQUENCE and so on.

Thanks

--
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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

Kjell Rilbe-3
Den 2012-10-23 09:19 skrev Michael Hieke såhär:
> Am 23.10.2012 07:25, schrieb marius adrian popa:
>> Maybe we can find a way in the conf something like
>> export generators as seqences = true or generators old behaviour =
>> true (by default if is not set)
>> and ifdef the export part
> That's too specific IMHO.  We can not reasonably add a configuration
> option for each syntactic change in the DDL.
Agree. Would be impossible to maintain for both you and us users.
> What we could have is a per-database syntax level, something that would
> control all those differences, like ALTER or RECREATE vs. dropping and
> recreating a database object, GENERATOR vs. SEQUENCE and so on.
A per database and/or global compatibility level setting might be a good
idea, but seems a bit unnecessary if old syntax remains valid for newer
versions. On the other hand, users that start with FB 2.5 or even 3.0
might find FR's syntax strange and dated ("out of fashion") if FR
consistently sticks old syntax. To make FR appear modern and "with the
times", this option might be good, and should probably default to
something rather new albeit probably not the very newest: i.e. default
to the FB version you judge to be most frequently used.

Just a few thoughts from a regular user. :-)

Kjell

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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

Damyan Ivanov-5
In reply to this post by Michael Hieke
-=| Michael Hieke, 23.10.2012 09:19:39 +0200 |=-
> What we could have is a per-database syntax level, something that
> would control all those differences, like ALTER or RECREATE vs.
> dropping and recreating a database object, GENERATOR vs. SEQUENCE
> and so on.

How about letting the user decide?

There might be a dialog with a question about the target firebird
version when the 'DDL' link is clicked. The information is then passed
to the DDL extraction routines and they decide what to do with it.

Of course this is not a tiny bit of work to implement, but perhaps
there are people around who would want to do it, and it would satisfy
both the wish to use latest DDL language and the requirements for
compatibility with older firebird versions.

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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

Milan Babuskov-4
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Damyan Ivanov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> How about letting the user decide?

Reading the discussion, I was thinking this as well.

> There might be a dialog with a question about the target firebird
> version when the 'DDL' link is clicked. The information is then passed
> to the DDL extraction routines and they decide what to do with it.

Or we could have per-server (or maybe, per-database?) setting in the
server properties dialog. It could be a dropdown box with options:

Select SQL compatibility level:
- Firebird 1.0
- Firebird 1.5
- Firebird 2.0
- Firebird 2.1
- Firebird 2.5
- Use detected Firebird version

The last option would query the server version when first DDL dump is required.

Thanks,

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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

marius adrian popa
Administrator
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Milan Babuskov
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Damyan Ivanov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> How about letting the user decide?
>
> Reading the discussion, I was thinking this as well.
>
>> There might be a dialog with a question about the target firebird
>> version when the 'DDL' link is clicked. The information is then passed
>> to the DDL extraction routines and they decide what to do with it.
>
> Or we could have per-server (or maybe, per-database?) setting in the
> server properties dialog. It could be a dropdown box with options:
>
> Select SQL compatibility level:
> - Firebird 1.0
> - Firebird 1.5
> - Firebird 2.0
> - Firebird 2.1
> - Firebird 2.5
> - Use detected Firebird version
>
> The last option would query the server version when first DDL dump is required.

+1 i was thinking the same that way if you work with new features for
example booleans in Firebird you can get the right extraction of DDL

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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

Kjell Rilbe-3
In reply to this post by Milan Babuskov-4
Den 2012-10-23 21:18 skrev Milan Babuskov såhär:

> Or we could have per-server (or maybe, per-database?) setting in the
> server properties dialog. It could be a dropdown box with options:
>
> Select SQL compatibility level:
> - Firebird 1.0
> - Firebird 1.5
> - Firebird 2.0
> - Firebird 2.1
> - Firebird 2.5
> - Use detected Firebird version
>
> The last option would query the server version when first DDL dump is required.
>
+1. Very good suggestion!

Kjell

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Re: flamerobin bug it seems when it exports the DDL the sequences are exported as generators

Milan Babuskov-4
In reply to this post by marius adrian popa
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 8:43 AM, marius adrian popa <[hidden email]> wrote:
> +1 i was thinking the same that way if you work with new features for
> example booleans in Firebird you can get the right extraction of DDL

AFAIR, booleans are different, because metadata in system tables for
them is distinct so there is no ambiguity. Problem is when you have
multiple ways to dump DDL for some object and it may or may not be
compatible with all FB versions. Stuff like COMMENTs, SEQUENCES, ALTER
VIEW, etc.

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